So first it turns out Rass al 3abed wasn’t our creation, now it turns out our national anthem is copied as well. Watch from 1:28 [YouTube]
Update: I think we should get System of a Down to write a new national anthem for Lebanon since you could count them as a Lebanese band. If they refuse we can always ask Scorpions.
What a mess, as much i love the tune it’s got to go… and change the flag while you are at it too…
i liked Ragheb Alameh’s rendition some years ago…maybe we can adopt that one? that is if we can keep the words as well if Mr Ra7bani agrees…
perhaps Guss is aiming at making a hard rock/heavy metal Lebanese Anthem? would sound cool, and would be the first anthem to require a rock band with a WAWA pedal and Cow bells….Lets get Rage Against the Machine to do it….
fuck RATM, lets get “oscar winner” Trent Reznor instead 😀
Or we could get System of a Down since they could be counted as a Lebanese band
The lyrics could have been very close since they were using the same “Ba7er” but the guy who came up with the lyrics is said not to have made it a song.
I think further investigation should be done on this issue by some other TV than Al Jadeed and some other guy than Ghassan Rahbani.
Also, how would we have access to such poems from Maghreb? not like there was the internet back then. If the poem was written in 1924, it found its way to Beirut to the hands of the Lebanese anthem author in less than a year?
I think we should play Kataeb’s anthem. It is really nice.
If we’re going after ready made lebanese songs how about Hamra wmaktoubi bel nar?
http://www.lebaneseforcesmedia.com/songs/01%20bachir%20-%20Hamra%20w%20maktoubi%20bel%20nar.mp3
Najib, there was internet in 1924, but the Lebanese didn’t want to divulge the secret…how do you think they toppled the French in 43? lek Ma Ne7na Mna3ref….
on a more serious note, there is a Lebanese dude that has won an Oscar or two for movie music, it would be fitting since Lebanon life is like a goddamn political thriller/neo-action B movie…
when i did my army service they made us memorize the army anthem, which i have of course forgotten, we can use that as an interim anthem… because we are guaranteed to forget it… believe me it’s forgettable…no offense to the anthem of course.
however if RATM or SOAD or Metallica do it, there have to use the intro to ONE…with the helicopter sound and everything… and not any Chopper, a UH1
We could ask Scorpions to do it since they’re practically a Lebanese band as well 🙂
HA!….maybe we can make an anthem for every division of government…
Traffic Division gets: Offspring’s Bad Habit….
name the rest to appropriate rock or other songs…
Ronman,
We barely have internet nowadays lol ..
You are talking about Gabriel Yared?
Mark, Hamra wou Maktoubi bil nar is more of a patriotic song than a national anthem. Kataeb anthem is much nicer.
Maybe Ghassan Rahbani is doing all this to promote one of his songs, like “Taree2 el Matar” or “iza za3ajak cheelo”.
Come to think of it, SLCHI song would be great for our country. I still remember its lyrics even after so many years.
baddak lal deghri baddak lal jadd
noss se3a bteghri jayi 3al 2ad
jayi 3a bali ghanni mouwwal
mich tayi2 7ali bass machi el 7al
i was also thinking of the SLCHI song but Wind of Change is more popular in Lebanon.
Even if it was the tune was copied, I don’t see where th big deal is, and I don’t think that we will have to change our Anthem.
I don’t think that the Anthem was stolen, because otherwise the morrocan would have noticed this long time ago. Maybe the composer just gave the tune to both countries.
I have a feeling that Ghassan 3am bi kabber el 2ossa so maybe him or his father will do a new anthem.
But if you insist on changing it, we could use the son B7ebak Ya Libnan Ya watani b7ebak…
what do you think?
Alf,
B7ebbak ya Lebnen would be a great national anthem as well and coming from Fayrouz it s even better.
Excuse my typos! i wrote my comment very quickly and didn’t re reread it 😛
fayrouz is old fashioned, we need something new and young, this is why System of a Down would work.
System of a Down 2el lool ..
khaleena 3al SLCHI a7san 😀
SOAD? Really? That’s cool although…then you will say the Armenians are taking over dude!
I say we go for Mashrou’ Leila!
Najib, yeah that guy…
as for the SLCHI tune, i think we should go with the first one they did when they first started…
@ ALF, don’t dis the Rahbani’s man, Guss and his Pops are good musicians, and it would be cool if Guss did his own anthem, on one condition it has to rock!….forget Elie the piano man we want something funky…
As for it being a big deal, it is a big deal if it was in fact wrongfully stolen, that means we have based the tune of our nation on a stolen piece of art…it’s like discovering our flag was in fact the original flag of some nation in Europe that was defeated and recreated for Lebanon because the poor bastards that drew it happened to find it all crumpled in the jail they were being kept in by the french…
Not to forget that the original tune was for a kingdom that was obliterated…it doesn’t bode well, and i believe in Karma…perhaps that is why Lebanon never really got up on its feet like it should have…
on the other hand if the guy that came up with the tune was an active member of the Moroccan kingdom and wanted to project his ideals onto another new state, then that’s a nice story, but i believe it would have been made public back then…
what about: 3a hadir el Bosta… or she she sheshishe, w mneshrab Tooooooooooot
don’t jinx the flag! it might actually turn out to be stolen as well
I can’t seem to find the original SLCHI intro…
Mark the whole country is jinxed dude.. haven’t you noticed? 🙂
you must admit we are an eclectically patriotic bunch… LOL
is it this one?
http://youtu.be/Vauk6Wlhzi4
Mark,
Even looked at the Austrian Flag and noticed the resemblance?
And here’s to complete the big fat lie of a country we live in:
One theory on the flag’s design holds that since Lebanese member of parliament Henri Pharaon, who was involved in the making of the flag, was a long-time consul in Vienna and was an avid friend and founder of the “Austro-Lebanese Association of Friendship”, the colors could have been inspired by the Austrian flag
lol
Najib, you took that right out of my mind, i was just about to mention the Austrian flag….
Mark
no, the one just before that i think , i was based on the same song same tune but it had different words…
there is a verse that says:
falto fremetak 3al kou3
kou3ak ken a3la min ketfak
Dolarak jehez ta tedfa3 etc etc. etc.
what about Scotti doesn’t know from Europtrip? (the citizen doesn’t know)… LOL the tune will at least get people to drive faster in the Left lane…
Najib, although i had a feeling that my jokes had the possibility of being true (about the flag), you just devastated me…
if that is the case, it’s time for the Cedar to go, the billboards to come in, cause there are more billboards out there than there are cedars… plus they are fueling the economy, it’s one sided fueling, enlarging the upper class and deflating the middle one, but who cares about details?
do you mean something like this?
http://www.unex-t.com/lebanonflag.jpg
Exactly!!!!
Ronman,
I wanted to post the other day about the excess of billboards on the highway and almost everywhere. It’s becoming really annoying.
no need to post the obvious 😉
saturation point for me was reached sometime in 2008…
when i step out on my balcony it feels like i virtually walked into a page of the Waseet…
the main problem is the looks, the hideousness, and the destruction of the overall looks. the buildings are bad enough, and naked ladies and cheap singer ads do not make them any better. there is also an economical problem, all media budgets are being diverted there, starving print and audio visual outlets where these budgets and ads should go. this is creating an abnormal imbalance in the system devaluing the products…and much more…
but their ugliness and hazards are enough to have them removed.
better than the internet:
during the French mandate, a Moroccan military unit attached to the French army was present in Lebanon for a considerable amount of time + among the French Gov’t officials, many served in other French colonies.
Therefore, it’s hardly inconceivable that they didn’t know it was plagiarized & passed on this knowledge to Gov’t officials.
Scorpions a lebanese band !?? how come !?
Nice insight Mariam…where’s the source?
I am not sure it’s plagiarism but even if they knew that they are copying the old anthem, anno how can they accept the fact that the NATIONAL anthem is a copy or another !
rana,
Definition: “the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one’s own original work”
Now how do you define plagiarism?
Our Lebanese supreme law or constitution is also copied and edited by Michel Chiha from the French constitution. Yet we accept it because it is known and declared.
With all my respect to Ghassan Rahbani regarding his comparison of the anthem finding to someone discovering that his current mother is not his real one, I found it inappropriate. Would he ignore or deny the mother who raised him?…
I assume that our anthem story is an annoying matter and of concern but we all love this anthem and were raised on it. We won’t deny it or change it.
This issue can be arranged by modifiying, from now on, in the Lebanese official history textbook adopted in schools, the origin of our anthem music;stating that it is inspired from an old morocan music and not invented as we already thought by Wadih Sabra.
Ronman,
knowledge of history, research & general knowledge.
Sorry i expressed myself in a wrong way, It’s definitely plagiarism for me, but what i meant is that maybe for the creators of the hymn they might have decided to take it or Reuse it by a joint agreement with the original creator… ok i am just trying to find an answer to make the news easier to cope !
Mariam, that’s a heavy statement you have there, unless you are a PHD/Professor in near east and middle east history you can’t site your knowledge as a source…i need something i can go to and read…
I have ample (knowledge of history, research & general knowledge), my family was originally french with a link to North Africa (Algeria/Morocco) my great grandfather might have been one of the dudes you are talking about as he landed in Aleppo/Beirut as interpreter for the French so i know that part of history, but even that i had to read somewhere (family tree book)
i.e: a concrete source, a book, a link something…
Ronman,
you can’t tell me what I can or can’t site. Full stop.
On the other hand, you can accept or not accept what I said or go and research it further.
It wasn’t too long ago, I recall my family recall WW1 & WW2, the mandate & many stories.
Here’s another one for you, Ronman:
When Pierre Gemayel & others led anti-colonial and independence demonstrations, the French would unleash their Senegalese troupes on them.
The mostly illiterate Senegalese would charge the demonstrators vocalizing:
Moi, civiliser vous!
Speaking of Pierre Gemayel,
It is quite sad how ungrateful Lebanese were to this man and what he has done for our independance. He is barely mentioned in all history book if mentioned at all, yet he was among the first to get jailed.
And the Senegalese story is true.
Ronman & Mariam,
You don’t need a phd to know the story mariam has told but in the same way ya Mariam you cannot pretend that they knew about the Lebanese plagiarizing it if it was plagiarized at all since I still don’t believe it was stolen.
Ronman,
you can’t tell me what I can or can’t site. Full stop.
ermm… you didn’t site anything Mariam, you said that you know and you sited your own knowledge as a source…that’s not a source as in the definition of a source……a lot of people site Wikipedia these days, and much that is on there is not accurate so if it’s not written in an officially endorsed source it’s not accurate, and hence not very dependable…don’t take it personal.
Najib, true, my family history is deeply rooted in the french landings in the area just before and during WWI, my father is old enough to remember the days of the independence. but phd or no phd, when one asks for a source, the top of your head or the deepest pit in your brain don’t qualify as a source…
My previous jokes aside, i think a serious investigation should be conducted to ascertain the truth, because if anything is greater than the nation itself, it’s the symbols on which its people pin their hopes and aspirations to, and the national anthem is one of those symbols right there on top with the flag….
Ronman,
Personal recollections are sometimes the most trustworthy sources. I guess you want further reference to the said events. Then you can Google it. It is easier than writing a whole diatribe about the reliability of someone’s statement…which in essence you have NOT been able to refute.
The history of the flag is well known, and it’s SORT of “borrowed”… during the mandate the Lebanese flag was a French flag with a cedar in the middle, then they changed it to the current flag after independence, to symbolize the new era while maintaining some continuity. So they kept the concept, but moved the stripes and changed the blue one to red. Not sure why these exact changes were made — maybe there was some Austrian inspiration too 😉
Gianni,
I’m not doing a diatribe dude, don’t just comment to comment… I asked for a source, she replied as general knowledge research and knowledge of history…
when one asks for a source, either you site a source for reference or you keep shut(Google search doesn’t count, i thought we were all adults here)…my grandaddy told me many stories…but he was biased, therefore he is not a reliable source of history, he was a witness but not a reliable source…same goes to the rest of grandads that revolted against the french…
and about the french, looking back now don’t you think they took a hike a little too early? like 50 years too early? We weren’t ready then, and we are still not ready now to rule this so called mess of a country…by the way the fact that we took our independence in 43 when france was on its knees should mean something…
F, the french flag has vertical Bars, ours are horizontal so it wasn’t a case of just replacing the blue, unless the dutch has something to do with it :O
This is a shocking and depressing conclusion that AlJadeed reached. But frankly I don’t think they gave enough effort to investigate and scrutinize allegations of such magnitude.
The whole thing is based on two “factsâ€:
1- A French documentary about a period in the 50s that plays the Batal el Reef Poem with the Lebanese Theme
2- A poem text that mentions it was written by Ibrahim Touqan and that the music was by Mohamad Fleifel.
But taking that to conclude that the Lebanese Antheme was “stolen†from Morocco is far fetched:
1- There is nothing that confirms this poem was the national Antheme of the Rif Republic. I especially doubt this was case because:
a- The poem was written by Touqan, saluting Al-Khattabi. It was not written by request from Khattabi. check this:
ÙÙŠ Ø£Øد أيام الشتاء من عام 1924 اجتمع إبراهيم طوقان وعبدالرØيم قليلات ومØمد ÙليÙÙ„ ÙÙŠ مقهى الكاريون.. (بيروت).. كانت البلاد العربية تعص٠يومذاك بأخبار انتصارات العرب ÙÙŠ شمال Ø¥Ùريقية.. وخطر لإبراهيم.. أن يضع نشيداً لهذه الثورة.. Ùكان هذا النشيد الذي وضعه إبراهيم ÙÙŠ تلك الجلسة التاريخية،.. واستطاع.. الأستاذ Ù…Øمد ÙليÙÙ„.. أن يضع Ù„Øناً قوياً… ÙÙŠ تلك الجلسة» من كتاب: «شاعران معاصران» ص 122-123.
b- It is really unlikely that a person such as Khattabi, would accept a national antheme that has his name in it!
c- The Rif Republic was an islamic Republic under Spanish siege. It is unlikely they maintained an orchestra to play a national antheme in the first place!
2- There is no confirmation that the Lebanese anthem music was the same music that Mohamad Fleifel put when Ibrahim Touqan created the poem:
a. Are there any recordings of the music that were created back in 1924-1926? This has to be checked
b. Mohamad Fleifel was Lebanese, living in Lebanon for 60 years after this antheme was created. If an antheme for his own country was stolen from him, wouldn’t he say anything – not even to his own son? Unlikely!
c. In some scripts of the “Batal El Reef†poem, it says “played under the lebanese national anthemâ€
The most likely explanation I can see, pending further research:
1- The poem was created by Ibrahim Touqan saluting the Rif hero, not as a national antheme. The original music done by Fleifel for this song, if any, was lost.
2- The poem was revived later on as a national Moroccan patriotic song, and the Lebanese anthem music was adapted for that
This is all pending more research and investigation, which should have been done before AlJadeed published their “discovery”!
+10 for Tarek, your final statement proves how little credibility Lebanon’s Media has….